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Hi,I read often of people working at the soundtrack of a TV movie, an independent movie, a documentary, a game For me, it is a bit like reading a fantasy tale, or looking out of the window on a magic world.I live in a country that was the second movie industry in the world till the Seventies. Then it declined, and last year only a few more than one hundred movies have been produced, most of them without a distribution.When young, I worked – as a writer and musician – at many short and a few feature films. The shorts won some prizes. One of our first feature films was reviewed by an important critic, that reproved how these kids were trying to make movies like the adults (an action movie in an age of problematic growing kids running on their scooters!). All the following screenplays were even partially financed, but then they were all passed to mainstream directors (coming from a particular establishment) who did nothing with our materials.End of the story.
A story similar to that of many of our correspondents around the country. We all have other jobs.
The nearest to the movie industry is advertising. Some organize independent movie festivals. One of us was successful in the market, and makes TV serials of the gangster genre.I know there are still developed movie production industries around the world. In the USA, in the UK, in France, in Germany, in China, in India. I know nothing of other countries.
Is there still work, or is it just for a handful of professionals? Is there an underground, a small producer sector keeping the industry alive? Who are the customers?Paolo. Interesting question for sure.
I have a feeling that it's not about what you know, but who you know. In my neck of the woods (Canada), there are a lot of independent films that are screaming for composers.but for budget reasons, are not able to provide an attractive compensation; these are typically a small 'token fee' type of gig, or freebies in hopes of landing a bigger production if the director gains success. There are bigger productions, but typically get scored in the post production houses and are still on the lower budget end of the spectrum. For the big Hollywood-type productions, you really need to have a solid foot in the door, along with a solid resume. What I mean is, your chances of landing a major production (as a 'nobody', no matter how good you are), are about as good as spotting Elvis walking into a 7-11 with the Loch Ness Monster. And then of course there is luck (being in the right place at the right time), which is still entirely possible, but I wouldn't count on it.
Just keep plugging away.you never know what will happen, or who will hear your music.And is the underground, small producer sector keeping the industry alive? For composers, absolutely not.
It has driven our livelihood downhill. Indie directors are counting on composers scoring their films for practically nothing, which is okay if you're just learning the ropes, but it's not helping things.especially with all of the cheap music libraries out there. These are just my views of the industry! The Industry is Los Angeles, as far as I know.I can't really speak to other places. I would suspect London is a strong 2nd place and then New York or Sydney or Toronto or Vancouver or similar a distant 3rd.This is not news, everyone already knows this.
The question is always, 'can I work from somewhere else' and the answer is always 'yes, technically, but it's super hard, good luck with that'. (There's probably 30 threads on this topic if you search.)If you're really serious about it, move to LA. The part I think people don't understand, if they're not used to it or haven't experienced it, is just how thick LA is with The Industry. The city has a vibe you can't escape.
Maybe it's because I'm technically 'in' The Industry but it feels more rare to meet someone NOT in The Industry. Almost everyone you meet is either in or, more typically, trying to get in.Three guys on my softball league team are television producers, three other guys work in post-production. Two guys on my basketball league team are editors. Another guy is a working composer. I didn't meet these guys in The Industry or through 'Industry' events, I met them because our kids go to the same school or are friends. I play pick-up basketball at the ymca with 3 or 4 fairly well-known b-list actors.
Another handful are studio musicians. I've scored indie films for guys I met at the boxing gym, or at my golf course. Two of my neighbors happen to be film editors, and I don't particularly live in a typical 'Industry' area like Culver City, Burbank, or North Hollywood. I don't get out of the studio nearly enough but I bet I could find an 'Industry' event or meetup somewhere in LA every night of the week to attend.
If you don't mind driving a bit.Anyway not really what you're asking, but if you're having trouble locating The Industry you might try looking towards LA. I don't know if there ever was a different scenario. Composing music was always at best a tenuous profession. In the past you had to rely on rich people and the church. Yes, there was a short lived era started by the beatles and destroyed by the internet where pop and rock writers and artists could make a ton of money but that never really carried over to the jazz or composing world.so, i think what anyone needs to do who wants to work in this industry, and there is a multi-billion dollar industry, is first of all, study it and understand it. How it works, who the players are, how to approach and get yourself recognized, and most importantly, how it's changing.
Then you need to accept the fact that no one will go looking for you. Sure, you can be in a hut in iceland creating sonic masterpieces, but no one cares. You have make your services available.
But you have to do that intelligently. I see all kinds of advice being given on the net by who knows who, certainly not by hans zimmer, on what to do. But in my experience, and i've been working in various aspects of the music industry all my life, you have to begin by understanding that you are offering a service that will help someone else accomplish what they want or need to do. It can be a jingle to help them sell a widget, or a stirring piece to fire up some emotional response and contributions for an NGO, or a trailer soundtrack to help sell a film (newsflash to many.trailers are commercials to sell films); this is not art. It's not even that creative many times. It's a service, like engineering, or nursing or heck, emptying the garbage. The one who gets the job is the one who provides the service and makes the other person look good, with as little fuss as possible and always on time.i actually feel that this is a better time to be working than in previous decades.
The internet provides access like never before. So maybe you don't live in LA, but in some unmanned country that used to have a great film industry. Doesn't matter. Are you connected to the internet? Then you have access. Now, how you present yourself and use that access, that's up to you. But i feel that in some ways, the revenue stream that can de developed for composers today is better than ever.but you have to make sure that your stuff is absolutely industry standard.
And that takes lots of time, effort and trial and error. Which i feel is often lacking in the music that is being published on the net.that having been said, there is definitely a serious downward trend going on. Budgets are continually falling. Even the top names are complaining about it. But there's nothing anyone can do. How do you think the steel workers feel watching their industry being taken over by robots? Well, the composing world is being inundated with free and almost free music and work.
How does one compete against pre-recorded loop libraries or construction kits? Or against the never ending stream of composers with day jobs who will work 'just for the experience'? Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free? That doesn't even examine the many production companies who play the tax credit game and just want your name to be able to get credits and pay for their productions.but that's another discussion i think.my 2 cents. I hate to say that it's not.It's probably a much better time to try to work from the middle of Kansas because now you may have a 2% chance of 'making it' from there whereas 15 years ago it was 0%.As you mentioned. Shrinking budgets, on top of shrinking royalties due to mostly unregulated streaming, on top of everyone wising up to and fighting over publishing, on top of millions of internet warriors buying a laptop and a spitfire library, and, in a few cases actually writing very decent music to compete with. Hello, go here, find your music area and applyYou'll at least build a decent profile and make a little money.
If your a beginner I'd suggest applying for the lower end projects. For all the others out there, some, alot of them can pay very nice.
Into the thousands. However, these projects are posted frequently and taken frequently, keep checking. Some are high end and some low. If everything posted is high tier, keep your eyes open. There's plenty of guys and gals who are looking for guys like us.
Just gotta know where and how to look. There's multiple sites like these out there Google 'composer classifieds or something similar'You keep at it and you'll eventually grow a name for yourself and you'll come across random directors and put on some of their first priority 'call list' for their future projects.
Here's a few more links from the top of my head.Remember, if possible, keep the rights to your music. And please, have at least 5 good tracks preferably, of different tempo, instruments, ect. You don't want to be that one guy everyone hates who applies with nothing to back him/her up. I don't know if there ever was a different scenario. Composing music was always at best a tenuous profession.
In the past you had to rely on rich people and the church. Yes, there was a short lived era started by the beatles and destroyed by the internet where pop and rock writers and artists could make a ton of money but that never really carried over to the jazz or composing world.so, i think what anyone needs to do who wants to work in this industry, and there is a multi-billion dollar industry, is first of all, study it and understand it. How it works, who the players are, how to approach and get yourself recognized, and most importantly, how it's changing. Then you need to accept the fact that no one will go looking for you. Sure, you can be in a hut in iceland creating sonic masterpieces, but no one cares. You have make your services available. But you have to do that intelligently.
I see all kinds of advice being given on the net by who knows who, certainly not by hans zimmer, on what to do. But in my experience, and i've been working in various aspects of the music industry all my life, you have to begin by understanding that you are offering a service that will help someone else accomplish what they want or need to do. It can be a jingle to help them sell a widget, or a stirring piece to fire up some emotional response and contributions for an NGO, or a trailer soundtrack to help sell a film (newsflash to many.trailers are commercials to sell films); this is not art. It's not even that creative many times. It's a service, like engineering, or nursing or heck, emptying the garbage. The one who gets the job is the one who provides the service and makes the other person look good, with as little fuss as possible and always on time.i actually feel that this is a better time to be working than in previous decades. The internet provides access like never before.
So maybe you don't live in LA, but in some unmanned country that used to have a great film industry. Doesn't matter.
Are you connected to the internet? Then you have access. Now, how you present yourself and use that access, that's up to you. But i feel that in some ways, the revenue stream that can de developed for composers today is better than ever.but you have to make sure that your stuff is absolutely industry standard.
And that takes lots of time, effort and trial and error. Which i feel is often lacking in the music that is being published on the net.that having been said, there is definitely a serious downward trend going on. Budgets are continually falling.
Even the top names are complaining about it. But there's nothing anyone can do. How do you think the steel workers feel watching their industry being taken over by robots? Well, the composing world is being inundated with free and almost free music and work.
How does one compete against pre-recorded loop libraries or construction kits? Or against the never ending stream of composers with day jobs who will work 'just for the experience'? Why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free? That doesn't even examine the many production companies who play the tax credit game and just want your name to be able to get credits and pay for their productions.but that's another discussion i think.my 2 cents. I hate to say that it's not.It's probably a much better time to try to work from the middle of Kansas because now you may have a 2% chance of 'making it' from there whereas 15 years ago it was 0%.As you mentioned.
Shrinking budgets, on top of shrinking royalties due to mostly unregulated streaming, on top of everyone wising up to and fighting over publishing, on top of millions of internet warriors buying a laptop and a spitfire library, and, in a few cases actually writing very decent music to compete with. Thank you everybody for your opinion and experience. If possible, I'm now more confused than ever (and this may be a good thing).Based on the raw number of produced movies, the industry should be (in order of relevance) in India, Nigeria, China, the United States, and far less in the UK and France. Then, one should consider how many of the produced movies have real world-wide distribution, and how much they earn and can pay the people who made them.As a Westerner, I guess I should be interested to the USA, the UK and France.
I wouldn't even know how to move in the other cinematographies. What Chillbot describes is more than simply working in Hollywood: you must live Hollywood, with all the human and social relations involved in finding and maintaining contacts with the industry.Moving to LA is probably not for everyone. Maybe I could have done it when young. House prices are incredibly high, so I doubt I could have enough money left, after the rent, to meet someone at the golf club and find a professional contact.As MatFluor says, maybe we Europeans would find an easier way in one of the European movie-making towns (essentially: London and Paris). It's still unclear to me which are the opportunities in these towns.
I've touched the art film industry in Paris, but know nothing about commercial movies, TV movies, documentary, art video, games. Even less I know about London, where about 11,000 companies working on cinema exist.My experience in Paris (where I also studied Cinema for a semester) suggests me that things are very similar to LA there. There is a circle of writers, directors, actors, visual artists – and musicians, mostly coming out of the university and the professional master courses. You must be part of that circle to find contacts.I've had the impression that there are jobs available, and a skilled professional can access them with a lot of work – and accepting the rules and rituals of the group. Always being aware that Paris is a very competitive and rewarding town, with a sweet face and a stony heart.Paolo. There are some other threads about the whole 'moving to LA' topic, here is one:- I think you need to distinguish between wanting to be a media composer or solely a film composer or solely a Hollywood film composer.
Those three are different goals, and if you want to be a Hollywood film composer, then yes, I think your best option is to move to LA (though not an absolute must) - and advice and experiences are very useful in this matter. If you want to be a film composer, then there are tons of films out there that need music, but they won't pay you much or any money at all, but you'd be writing music for films. If you however want to make composing your career and make a living, you want to be a media composer, i.e.
Be flexible in the type of projects you may take on (which can of course include films!). People always regard film composers as the top echelon of the composition hierarchy, but from a financial point of view you are least likely to make any money in this arena. Sure the top Hollywood guys earn tons, but the next rung after that has quite a drop-off and then there is the army of composers who write for free/low fee for films that run in a few eccentric cinemas for a week if they are really lucky. And composing to bad acting, bad colour correction, bad scripts and bad camera work is no fun.Having lived in London for a long time, I would not advise to go over there in the hope of kick-starting a film career. London is also stupidly expensive - you could always live a bit further out.
Most British cinema is struggling, and the films that are released, again, show on a few screens for a week, then it's off to dvd and the budgets are low. We have a strong tradition of actors, locations, orchestras, but the big budget stuff, and the decision makers are in LA. Having said that, netflix et al are challenging this - they can now outbid the big Hollywood studios for scripts.
And you are on the door-step of Germany, where there is a strong TV market, with recent productions such as Ku'damm 56, Our Mothers Our Fathers, Deutschland 83, etc showing that non-English productions can be really high-quality and even garner some international attention.I guess my short bit of advice is: 'Don't get hung up about being a film composer, instead focus on being a media composer who makes a living'.Hope that helps. Having lived in London for a long time, I would not advise to go over there in the hope of kick-starting a film career.
London is also stupidly expensive - you could always live a bit further out. Most British cinema is struggling, and the films that are released, again, show on a few screens for a week, then it's off to dvd and the budgets are low. We have a strong tradition of actors, locations, orchestras, but the big budget stuff, and the decision makers are in LA. Having said that, netflix et al are challenging this - they can now outbid the big Hollywood studios for scripts.
That is absolutely what I plan to do. There is a Lot of media to make music for, and honestly, I don't have enough the goal to compose Hollywood/Blockbuster films. Nice if I end up there one day, but that's not my primary goal. My primary goal is to make a living (even if small) from composing. Films and Video Games are preferred, but I also did jingles for Podcasts and the like. A nice TV series could be nice too.
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As with programming, I had the dream to work at Google, I know a few people there and after some chit chat with them and information, I do not want to work there. I'd rather choose a small company, earn a bit less but be happy with what I do. Same goes for my future career - I'd rather compose for ten short films and a web series which makes me an income I can live from (without luxury) than have one big Blockbuster per year which yields me a Ferrari and a pool every couple of years.In that sense, moving to Hollywood and not wanting to 'go big' is like moving to Silicon Valley and not wanting to work for the tech Giants. I'm sure LA is a good spot to go, but I hope other places are good as well for the spots I want to fill. Great advice! That's exactly what my approach has always been. With this mentality, and with the right approach, one can earn a healthy secondary (or even primary) income from working over the internet.or even a combination of local and web-based work.
My first feature length film was spotted and delivered over the internet.As MatFluor mentioned, picking up and moving to the US is a logistical hassle. Plus, there's other things to consider, like having no healthcare once you're there.unless you have a huge credit limit or pricey insurance.But first and foremost, don't be discouraged. Just keep on 'pounding the pavement', knocking on doors, and networking.
It make take a long time, but you'll find your niche. I would also check out some local live theatre groups, it's just like scoring a film but much more interactive.
Plus, there's often good money involved for the composer. I think you speak the truth. Quite a while ago I did some music for radio commercials.
It gave me an understanding that this isn't about art. This is about selling something. This is about helping somebody else sell something. It's business. If you can hold two fingers down on the right ambient loop that gives them just the right sound they wanted, then Bingo, they're happy. They're not worrying about somebody out there going 'oh that guy's using a loop! That synth sound is a preset!
That's a phrase library!' I'm going to guess that most people could go years in this industry and never go beyond doing kid records, commercials, corporate film background music about their new resort in Switzerland. That sort of thing. I mean, I imagine the odds of actually doing a major film where you can actually express real creativity and art are very slim. And you don't get those without connections. And you probably make those connections within University of Southern Cal film school, or Berkelee.It's like the lottery. Every few months someone's going to win.
But it's not likely to be you. So if you enjoy making music and you don't really care what it's for, then you'll probably enjoy yourself. But if you want to be a well-known and well-regarded artistic composer for major films, well that's like wanting to be an NBA star. Very few positions open.
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So you when you say you want to score films, are you really saying I want to be a movie star? I want to be a rockstar? I want to be a wealthy artist? Or do you just really like to make music for a living, and you don't really mind where it ends up.